From the start of the blog i have always kept my Catachans straight with the fluff. I have always taken great joy in being not one of does players that look in the book, takes the best units and then just spam them on the armylist paper. When i play my foot army i know many people are shaking their heads and think: "Ohh boy.... this guy doesn't know whats going on in his own codex" but at the same time it is almost always guarantied that the same person will smile while thinking it.That being said i wanna change my army in a bit different direction and i am gonna tell you my reasons.The Weaknesses
My list have 2 big weaknesses in objective games. Mobility and heavy firepower. Cause i have no transports i am forced to either foot slog it up the board towards the objectives, infiltrate near the objectives or outflank and grab one of my opponents objectives while holding on to my own.
First one is very bad for IG since we are very weak in generel close combat. Our army is made for pounding the enemy from afar certainly not get closer.
Secondly, while it is possible we are back to point one. Even Harks squad dug in deep with 3+ cover save, die very fast when close combat troops get to em or enough ranged firepower are brought on em.
Third have been my main tactic since i started playing and while this can work well in some situations, it suffers from a few things in my current army list. My main out-flankers have been Sentinels, penal legion and from time to time Harkers devils(veterans). The most common reason to this not working is that outflanking is horrible unreliable. Sometimes my out-flankers all come in in 1st or 2nd turn and get wiped out in 3rd or 4th turn. For this tactic to work best, i have to arrive in 3rd or 4th turn so my opponent already move most his forces forward.
Mobility.. Yeah footslogging troops don't have much of that. Even with my guerrilla army list with Harker, penal legion, sentinels and Marbo. Once they are in, they are in and my opponent knows where i will be at the next turns.
Heavy firepower.. while my army can put out a good deal of str 5-8 pr turn, i am really lacking the lascannons or bigger to take on some of the bigger beasts in the game. I am lacking a central gather point where i can focus my defenses around and dig in.
The change
Here is a sketch with my thoughts on how i would like to try to improve my army and at the same time go to 1750 points and be more competitive.
I still got some things to figure out. Like what weapons to put on the chimeras and what to use the last 8 points on.
The plan
The plan with the list is to fortify myself as far away from my opponent as possible and put all the hurt on him as possible from afar. Then in turn 3 or 4 start moving my chimeras out with my CCS and PCS inside to claim and contest objectives in turn 5 and in case game goes further hold it.
My army will center around my basilisk and mortars. I will use my infantry squads as sacrificial units to get eaten up when they reach me and then i will counterattack with my special weapons teams with some(hopefully) well placed demolition charges and then finished by ogryns or Straken CCS if they survive mass firepower and the demo charges after the consolidation move.
The sentinels and my penal legion will still outflank and hopefully draw some units away from the main force and maybe even capture a objective(it have happened before). Marbo will still jump out of nowhere and deal some hurt. Harkers devils... They will be where they will be most needed depending on who and how my opponents position himself. Which brings me back to the first picture in the post!
What do you guys think? One of the main worries i have is that the chimeras even held back behind cover might not survive the first 3 turns if my opponent figures it out. But then again, they are front armor 12 and i will try to park one so that it will give cover to the basi and the other so it will get a 4+ cover save. Might be easier said than done.
Ras signing out!
I actually think you are still sticking with the fluff alright. One question I have is (and forgive me if I am wrong, I haven't looked at an IG codex in a while) can you take 4 Heavy Weapon Squads under one Platoon squad? For some reason I thought it maxed out at 3, but again, I could be easily wrong.
ReplyDelete@Michael First of all thanks for checking out my list. You can take as many as 0-5 heavy weapons squads with a platoon. In each squad you have 3 teams, which is the two dudes on each base. Hope that clarified it.
ReplyDeleteI like it a lot. Draw them in to give them a nasty shock. Don't forget that a Commissar Lord is a good CC option that also brings his 6" Leadership bubble, which is awesome for keeping the autocannons and missile launchers in the game! The mortars/bassie shouldn't be receiving incoming fire as they should be out of sight!
ReplyDeleteAlternatively, consider a Primaris Psyker as a great model with the potential of bringing a lot of dakka to bare (up to 12 S6 shots) ... attaching him to a special weapon squad can bring firepower AND solid Ld.
Don't be afraid to go to ground ... remember to use infiltrate more than flank. Harker and his crew CAN infiltrate into an difficult position on the flank and simply threaten some open ground and attract someone.
Alternatively, I'd get some ratlings (but buy the Catachan snipers for the job) as another infiltrate group. 10 snipers are ace at killing MC's (think Tyranids/Eldar Wraithlords or even Blood Angels) and 10 rending weapons at BS4 at 10pts each with stealth - bargain!
Plus you could just keep them back in the Commissar bubble to avoid their dreadful Ld...
@Sune thx for the notes! I found that there is a much cheaper and safer way of keeping moral checks highly successful and that is with the regimental standard in a CCS. For a mer 15 points it is a steal and also its not possible to single him out. Granted he doesn't grant LD 10 but he does give them a re roll on all failed moral and pinning test to all units within 12 inces of him.
ReplyDeleteThe Primaris psyker is deffently a possibility. I must admit i have looked at him.. hehe. Might try him out after a few games for sure. I can even attack him to the PCS in the chimera for better claiming or let the special team along with him go and claim instead(so many options dammit!).
The ratlings i always been a bit ambivalent on. On one hand their stats is crazy and they are cheap, but on the other hand they are horrible unreliable as soon as they suffer casualties. Al tho keeping em within the standards range might improve alto on that. Might very well try it out later.
Dammit Sune you have to many good points but i like it! I think i know how my 2000 points list will be ;)
100pts of Ratlings...
ReplyDelete70pts Primaris Psyker...
That leaves you with a 80pts... either another penal legion, one more Sentinel (and buy a damned lascannon!) or more mortars!
I've always found lascannons unreliable with BS3. The only time I find they get the job done is with the three twin-linked Vendetta. Have you considered one or more of the Leman Russ variants?
ReplyDelete@Sune aye you read my mind. I wanna see how my chimeras will survive in a few games tho. The tanks and basilisk is already on its way from merry old England. Might just do what you said, but depends if my chimeras are dying in turn 1 or 2 or 3.. really need does chimeras alive for turn 3/4 rush. I will for sure have to test this during the next month or so.
ReplyDeleteps. would really liked to try out more mortars, but the last few games my mortars have let me down. twice i hit my own troops and pinned em and other turns the scatter like chickens to the slaughter...
@Cooper that is the reason why you don't see my sentinels with lascannons.
I wanna avoid to much mech for the time being as i really like footslogging it. But i have looked into it and might consider the options of russ squadrons later.
How about switching the Basilisk for two Griffons instead? I don't thing the earthshaker is bad, but a more close-ranged and accurate support option would be more fitting fluff-wise. And that Griffon is pretty sweet at 75pts.
ReplyDelete@Eriksson hmm valid point mate. But at the moment i seem to have a bigger problem with my opponents ranged stuff(Thunderfire cannons, defilers for instance). I really need that strength 9 big blast even tho its less precise.
ReplyDeleteI might get in a little bit of problems facing a very fast army with the basilisk, but this list should have many counter units to fast armies and i can always use the basilisk to stop the defending troops if we are playing objectives. Only time well tell.. besides i don't know why but i like the picture of camouflaged artillery with mortars and a big basilisk:)
Whats wrong with a Deffy??? *cries*
ReplyDeleteAnd I must say every time i faced a basilisk I've not been too impressed with it, maybe as Eriksson says go with the two Griffons, think 2 units will cause more trouble than one Basilisk..
Oh and I looove your mortars ;)
Thoughts:
ReplyDeleteA pair of griffons is absolutely fantastic...and no-one bothers targeting them. They are limited against armour, but don't forget that as barrage they always hit side armour(!) and as ordnance they roll 2d6 for penetration. That re-rolled scatter is great too; as is the close minimum range...
I'd seriously worry about your lack of anti-tank if I wanted to compete. For an extra 10pts, it might be worth converting that basilisk into a medusa(!), but you seem to be relying quite heavily on missile launchers.
Missile launchers are nice and versatile, but they do present problems: BS3 means that you'll miss every important roll(!) and they're heavy, so if you want to use them that poor footslogging unit loses the ability to move, and that's a big gamble to take for a single BS3 shot.
I note you've combined them with flamers too, but it seems unlikely to me that you'll ever fire those two weapons at the same target. That's the other problem with MLs in inf squads of course: if you take that single BS3 shot against a vehicle, you not only waste your chance to move but also all those lovely lasgun shots!
This is the reason why my normal army doesn't have heavy weapons in inf squads. Sadly, heavy weapons squads these days are less good, but you've done well to opt for autocannon and mortars...and even lovely missile launchers can be useful in threes!
I absolutely love the special weapons squads and Harker's lot should provide you with some fun. If you have 10pts spare you may wish to give them an autocannon in case they sit still for a turn...
Talking of spare points, to free some up I'd sack the missile launchers from the infantry squads, and maybe change one of the inf squads' flamers to a grenade launcher.
I'd also give the CCS veteran a flamer of some sort - heavy if you can justify it. He's only WS3, and for the sake of losing a single close combat attack he could really soften up whatever it is you're charging first.
A heavy flamer on a flanking sentinel can also be useful...
Just my thoughts...
@Drax as usually you bring many good points. The reason why i take the basilisk is the really long range. I find myself often out ranged cause i tend to positioning my main firebase as far back as possible which means my enemies artillery gets free pounding on me for 2-6 turns cause the only units i have to get em is the sentinels, Marbo or penal legion. I am lacking mobility more than anything at the moment(Anti tank weapons is a very close 2nd).
ReplyDeleteI really like the missile launchers in my infantry squads. They are extreme hard to kill cause of wound allocation and as you pointed out, they are very versatile. For me a transport is always first target cause i know if they get in close-combat with me i will take heavy looses. If i cant find any transports to shoot at i can use the frag grenades against anti infantry along with the lasguns, often however i get to shoot with the lasguns for 1 turn if i don't stop does transport, close-combat units or bikes. Your spot on about the flamers tho, i think i will go back to the grenade launchers again..
Outfitting Harker with a autocannon is very tempting, but again the price cost of his units comes back to haunt me.. Maybe its worth it, maybe its not.. Might have to test it out for a few games...
The heavy flamer in the CCS is already a done deal.. heavy flamer on a sentinel i found is VERY situational.. I had one game where i was really happy about it, but other games where a autocannon or Missile launcher would have been much better cause of range or nearby targets(Damn that mech). The thing i like about Missile launchers on Sentinels is again the versatility but also the fact that you get 1 strength higher which in some situations is a very big thing(even tho you get 1 less shot).
But i think you might be right about anti tank shots.. But i dont know how to get more punch unless i get either vendettas or some tanks with bigger guns... maybe a squadron of sentinels with lascannons and camonetting? 3 + cover save which can move out if needed to but what units to get rid of/downgrade..?