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The last week or two i been seeing some real nice debate on the blog concerning improvements on my 1000 point list. Basically what worked, what didn't work and what units could be interesting to put in to cover some of the weaknesses in my list.I had a plan on what units i would use in when i expanded from 1000 point and i had bought most of them in some of the first months of starting my army. Does of you who haven followed me for a while or read just a few on my post properly already know that my army is based more on fluf than winning tournaments. The fluf is what drives me to keep painting, converting and playing an Imperial guard: Catachan jungle fighter army. That being said i would still love to win games at the local club. In short i would like to be competitive at a club perspective, but still follow the fluf.
Now without further mumbling here is my 1500 points list(notice i am building from the 1000 points).
Edit. This list is actually wrong. I seem to have miss calculated the Command squad. As Marcus said its actually 310 not 260 which is a whooping 50 points wrong!
HQ:
CCS: Straken, medic, 2 laspistols with close combat weapons, Nork Deddog, vox and carapace armor upgrade.
260points
Lord Commisar: powerfist (Joins the ogryns)
85points
TROOPS:
PCS: Vox and heavy bolter HWT.
45points
Infantry squad 1: grenadelauncher, HWT with missile launcher and vox.
70points
Infantry squad 2: grenadelauncher, HWT with missile launcher and vox.
70ponts
HWT 1: 3 Missile launchers.
90points
HWT 2: 3 autocannons.
75points
Veteran squad: Harker, 2 melta, flamer and 1 demolition charge.
180points
penal legion
80points
Special weapons team: demolition charge, 2 flamers.
65points
HWT squad: 3 Mortars
60points
ELITE:
Marbo:
65points
Ogryns: 3 ogryns + bone ead
175points
FAST ATTACK:
1 scout sentinel squad: 2 with auto cannons and 1 missile launcher
135p
Total 1455.
Now this leaves me with 45 points left which can be used for upgrades when its needed. I was considering upgrading all the sentinels with lascannons for 35 points but i am very worried that it wont do with bs 3.
The second reason to the list is to ignore the Landraider and let it come to me.. with Straken, Nork, a bunch of angry ogryns and to top that of a special weapons team with demolition a charge, i wouldn't give it long to live, when it do get near(hopefully).
I do know that i am to low on Mortars but when i go 1750points ill add a lot of mortar HWT in, maybe even sooner after testing the list.
Plan is that i make a fire base and leave one flank to the PCS and 1 inf squad. Ill then outflank with the vets, penal legion and the sentinels to steal objectives and get does long ranged artillery. The penal legion squad doesn't need to kill anything, but if it can hold up some artillery, engage some devastators etc to give the rest of the army some breathing space while Strakens boys along with the ogryns beat beat on everything with the rest of the army shooting with everything it got.
I was toying with the vendetta gunship armed with the missing las cannons, but i am afraid it would give my opponent 1 juicy target to shot at.
With the added Lord Commissar i also have the option of combining squads for when playing killpoint missions with that big nasty blob of infantry leaded by a the lord Commissar with ld 10.
I know that my CCS is clocking out on 260 points which is a hell of a lot, but i think it will be worth it.
The above picture was drawn by Phil Moss
and belongs to him.
I play a Straken/Catachan list most of the time I play guard (started on Catachan years ago, went mech when my codex got withdrawn, and LOVED it when Straken and Marbo made their return!) That command squad is pricey but so, SO worth it. The amount of times people I've played against underestimate it. "It's only guard" they say. Then they lose an important squad to it and are flustered. I remember playing a black templar player who, after losing one of his main squads to it, decided to deal with it by sending in a dreadnaught. Straken tore it limb from limb. He then proceeded along the enemy backline with another dread backing away firing everything he had at him to protect the tactical squad cowering on the objective! :oP
ReplyDeleteWith those spare 45 points I'd go for a priest. Sure, you haven't got the points for an eviscerator which is a shame. But I know it's SO irritating when Straken HAS to kill something important - and I completely fluff the hit rolls. The priest is a cheap way of getting a second chance at that.
About the only other thing I'd say about the army is the Commissar doesn't really fit, but tactically I can see why you take him ;oP
@Ginge tell me about it, Straken can be a monster alright and i absolutely love both him and Marbo. However where Marbo sometimes rock in a game, Straken have so far always delivered. I have a good deal of funny stories about him where my opponents underestimated him already to.
ReplyDeleteI don't know about the priest, i am a bit worried that i will spend to many point aimed at the close combat part of my army without supporting the rest and so far i had about half the games where i could desperately have needed a Commissar. I can see however why a priest would fit in with the CCS, the re rolls to hit is amassing! For sure something i have to try out in the future.
With the fluf however i think the commissar fits very well with Catachans. Remember the old codex where they even had a special rule regarding commissars.. Where he sometimes would "disappear" in the start of the game... Cause Catachans have a thing with authority. Or in the book "Deathworld"(great book!)where they try and kill him. For that reason i always wanted one for my army.
Yeah I remember that rule, it's why I got out of the habit of fielding Commissars in that army early. I nearly always rolled a 6 (thus condemning the commissar to "slip" as they crossed that rickety rope bridge or something) and after a few times of that got sick of writing something on my list that never saw the table - bought something else with the points instead :oP
ReplyDelete@Ginge yeah before the new codex i wouldn't dream on wielding a Commissar either. We will see what the future brings, might change him with a priest once in a while or permanent if the priest fits in better with the synergy.
ReplyDeleteIts always nice to have options and Guard have alot! ;)
I can understand why to inclusion of the commissar but i agree with Ginge at not bringing the commissar. I haven't yet needed one in my games. He has good utility to turn you troops back around but I figure for the points you could even field another command squad and let them use one of their orders to turn the fleeing group around while having another powerfist and bodies or even a heavy weapon. Plus i think fluff wise that My catachans should never be considered running away or fleeing but instead they are trying to get back into the shadows. Obviously they kill a commissar because he is a delegated unit that they hate because he is just put in power and throws orders around without really fighting for his men. Thus they would rather fall back to fight another day than have some bimbo kill one of them to keep them there. When a catachan gets scared he reverts to the darkest recesses of his mind and becomes like an actual animal bent on survival over all else then hunting his prey.
ReplyDeleteBut if you want a commissar i can see why i just rationalize my list into not having him
@Brother Mars you guys might be right about the Commissar( i have differently taken it to note).
ReplyDeleteWhen i get my 1500 points army ready i will make a priest to and maybe buy another command squad. So i can test out what works best for me.
When all comes to all, there is many different army compositions and many different tactics and play styles. One thing which never fails tho is ideas and options cause no matter how much you think you know about one thing, there is always a guy out there with another take and idea that he didn't think about or tried out.
I'd lose the commissar too, I'm afraid. With a list light on armour you need as many bodies as possible on the ground. You could get another well-equipped squad for 85pts...hell, you could even get vets with three grenade launchers! (admittedly, I do obsess a little over grenade launchers)
ReplyDeleteOr another infantry squad plus a spare heavy weapon for your exisiting vets...
My ideas(also just began playing IG):
ReplyDeleteMake inf. squad 1 and 2 into blob, dropping the grenade launcher and one vox caster. Add a normal Commissar (Lord Commissar has Independent Character, which means he's an easy target in CC), and have them guard objectives etc. If you want to go offensive with Straken (which I guess you want) I'd get myself another 'naked' Command Squad to babysit HW-teams etc, 'Bring it Down' is a nasty order ;)I'd also drop Nork (way too expensive at 1500p) and go for 2 bodyguards.Wouldn't add Lord Commissar to Ogryns, rather go for Primaris Psyker, due to Summary Execution (you don't wanna lose that Bone'ead). Force Weapon is also nice for instant-deathing some Characters :)Lascannon-team for extra anti-tank.
The list:
- CCS with Straken, 1x Medic, 4x Laspistol, 2x Body guard, Carpace Armour, Chimera w. Laser and Flamer -->288
- CCS with Vox, Autocannon and Camo-Cloaks-->85
- Primaris Psyker-->70p
- Marbo-->65
- 4 Ogryns in Chimera w. Laser and Flamer-->225
- PCS w. Mortar and Vox
- Inf Squad w. Vox, Missile Launcher, Commissar
- Inf Squad w. Missile Launcher
- Lasercannon HW-team
- Autocannon HW-team
--> 390p
- Veteran squad: Harker, 2 melta, flamer and Demolitions--> 180
- Penal Legion Squad --> 80
-3 Senitels,2x Autocannon, 1x Missile Launcher (in 3 units) --> 40+40+45
Total 1500
Tried to keep it as fluffy as possible ;)
/Oliver
@Oliver You do make a lot of good points. The Lord commissar will be reconsidered and properly be an upgrade to a infantry squad like you suggested. I am starting to warm up on the idea of another CCS dedicated just to giving orders and maybe adding to ranged support. Its been suggested before and my last game with Straken sitting babysitting the HWTs for the first 3 turns maybe a huge difference compared to the first game i played that game when it came to popping Razorbacks.
ReplyDeleteWith that in mind however i have a few things of my own. Chimera will most likely never become a part of my Catachan army for the fluf alone. I know most IG armies run with a lot and that is one of their strengths, however i don't see it fitting in the theme at all(i have a Deathwing/Ravenwing army/eldar for mech).
Doesn't your list have 3 HQs? I don't like the idea of putting a Primaris Psyker with the ogryns for the same reasons to pointed out on the lord commissar.
Lascannon teams i am very ambivalent to, however might give it a try at one point as i can see i do have a weakness when it comes to stopping armor 14 with my missile launchers.
A very interesting post, thank you for your views, gave me some stuff to think about.
Yeah using Straken as a counter-attack would be a good idea, then you could drop the second CCS, and the list would be legal (forgot basic FOC--> epic fail xD)
ReplyDelete@Drax yeah i think your right about that, maybe get the missing melta squad in front of my HWTs that i been dreaming of lately. Grenade launchers for me is very mixed so far. They are pretty good vs very light toughness i guess, but so far i only been playing marines and 1 eldar so they tend to do not much.. But properly if you go all out with grenade launchers they give you wounds for the bucks.
ReplyDeleteI think you got the points wrong on the command squad. I get it to 310 points I'm afraid.
ReplyDeletecommand squad+50, Straken+95, medic+30, Nork+110, vox+5, armor+20 = 310
Or am I totally wrong?
@Marcus Ohh my god your right. I just recalculated and yep its 310 points not 260.. Don't know what went wrong there.. But thanks for bringing this to my attention mate.
ReplyDelete